When speaking to former Sydney Swans player Brandon Jack, there was a sense of assuredness, but from avenues of life you may not think.
The two-time author had recently delved into the land of fiction with his new novel, Pissants (July 2025, published by Simon & Schuster), after a successful debut with raw memoir 28 that reached masses far and wide with his experience in the AFL, and all the trials and tribulations that ensued.
Jack's five years at the Swans followed in the footsteps of his older brother Kieren, who was a captain and premiership player of the Bloods, anchored as the perfect launchpad into the psyche behind the well-written words of his two novels, and as he put it, "helped inform the book".
The challenges of journeying between non-fiction and fiction were profound, but in Jack's case, his first memoir didn't make him "feel like an author".
"I'd written a book, but didn't feel like an author. I didn't feel like I created anything. There was this itch I had to create something original, and that's why I turned to fiction... it allows you to do those things and to twist it and turn it and to crank the dial, so it's a lot more freeing," Jack told Zero Hanger.
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"I didn't want to write about footy again. Two years after 28 came out, I started writing the voices and characters down. And over the course of three to six months, different voices would come up and fall into place, and it became this fun exercise of where's the next voice going to come from?"
Jack's 28 games for Sydney were impressive as the club relished in a purple patch, despite the narrative that just over a season's worth of AFL matches isn't deemed successful.
The left-footer was taken with Pick 58 ahead of the 2013 season, following the club's premiership triumph over Hawthorn.
Jack never played more than 10 games in a season, and watched from the grandstands as his brother and club lost grand finals in 2014 and 2016. He was delisted at the end of 2017.
"When I finished playing footy, I looked out at the world and had no f****** idea what to do," Jack said.
"I didn't really have any experience in any field, and didn't know what I wanted to do work-wise, and you are thrown into a situation where you have to figure out what to do with your life.
"The only thing I knew I could do, and that I really enjoyed doing, was writing."
His experience in a professional environment offered real-life research into what quickly became his calling.
"Details from events in my life, or things I heard on the grapevine from footy circles. I had a collection of those in mind," he said.
"My history in football helped inform the book, and I kind of view it as those five years in a professional environment were, in a way, research. Like it's given me a level of understanding that's so deep that I can hopefully make it feel authentic on the page."
However, the transition from professional sport to society, redefining his self-being and sense of identity, was difficult.
But once he was encouraged by those close to him to pick up a pen, or laptop, a path forward became clear.
"Once somebody tells me to do something and I'm interested by it, I will then pursue it. I'll do whatever I can to make it happen," he added.
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And make it happen, he did. But not without difficulties.
Jack admitted he wrote a lot of "s***" manuscripts that "were really bad", but once he discovered the characters that would carry his new novel, things started to flow.
"[I] tried to start and finish two other novels before getting to Pissants, and I really struggled my way through those, and they died on the page; essentially, that was not well written," Jack said.
"I made a rule for myself that I would only write when I felt excited about it, and I knew that maybe every day I might get a half an hour window where I really felt excited to write these characters and to write these stories.
"Now I've developed an instinct for what's a strong idea, what feels genuine to write, and maybe that's finding your voice.
"I learned about myself as a writer. I think I've developed an instinct for when to write and when not to write."
But as his mind wandered through his "research" and the stories he could tell through characters Fangs, Stick, Squidman and Shaggers, Jack fills his days with, in his terms, a "boring" job that he would "not boast about at dinner parties".
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"I have a day job where I write government websites. I write copy for the government websites. And I f****** love my job because it means I am not stressed about getting published," he said.
"As a result, I would be terrified and would write. I would change my writing to suit, to please people, to get published, if I didn't have that job. So I'm very lucky that I have a boring public sector job, and I would not boast about it at dinner parties.
"But it means that my writing is not beholden to getting published, or it doesn't have to try and hit a different market. It can really just be its own thing, which is the dream."
Jack's "dream" has had a profound impact on those blessed to pick up his novels.
The well-written storyteller has a knack for creating a sense of familiarity, which in turn results in a greater level of understanding, especially of characters who most would despise due to their shenanigans.
The notion that Fangs or Squidman could be someone's brother, best friend, son and boyfriend appeals to the everyday reader, and not just the footy nuffie at the pub screaming at the TV, or analysing statistics on a weekly basis.
"The book is set in a footy world, but it is not a footy book. It explores characters with emotional feelings, and their lives, and the rollercoaster," Jack said.
"It's the framework that gives them a job, it gives them something to fear, something to look forward to, something to work towards... what people, I hope, relate to is the trials and tribulations of the characters.
"We all have an understanding of not being good enough for something, or not feeling good enough for something, and what that does to your psyche."
Although Jack drew inspiration from his own experiences and things he heard along the "grapevine", there are a select few credentialed authors who have found their way onto his bookshelf.
Writers such as Irvine Welsh (Trainspotting), George Saunders (Lincoln in the Bardo), Chuck Palahniuk (Fight Club) and Bret Easton Ellis (American Psycho) stimulated and drove Jack's desire to become a part of the esteemed group.
"I really f****** love reading, and there's a feeling I get when I pick up a book," he admits.
"These writers who I devour anything they write, and I then listen to them talk about their writing. I love listening to people who are masters of the craft explain it. I have writers whom I admire, and I in some way want to be that.
"And hope, who knows, in 20 years, if there's some f****** random 20-30-year-old guy out there watching my stuff, I'd be pretty happy."
And those who loved Pissants needn't worry about what happens next with the crew in the book.
"There's definitely a sequel."
You can purchase a copy of Brandon Jack's 'Pissants' (July 2025) directly from publishers S&S/Summit Books or at any good bookstore.
