Former North Melbourne and St Kilda star midfielder Nick Dal Santo believes both Hawthorn and the Saints won't be playing finals in 2018.
Both sides are currently in the mix for the eight among experts, although Dal Santo just can't see how either side improves enough on last season's efforts to jump into the finals.
โIโm putting the Hawks into the category of teams that will sit outside the eight that wonโt necessarily have bad years, and might even improve, but just purely on weight of numbers and given the evenness of the competition, they could have a good year and finish in the position I have them, and thatโs 12th,โ he told SEN Afternoons.
โI think there are at least eight teams better than them. Iโve got St Kilda out of the eight as well.
โI just canโt see who the Saints are going to beat that was inside the eight last year and replace them.โ
The Saints will be looking for their first finals berth since 2011, although they'll need to do so without recently retired club legend Nick Riewoldt.
Both clubs had relatively uneventful off-seasons, with St Kilda bringing in Logan Austin via trade and Hunter Clark and Nick Coffield via the draft.
The Hawks could only manage to bring in Jarman Impey from Port Adelaide.
Hawthorn will be looking to jump back into the top eight after a season away from September action, although they'll be up against it, given their list is the oldest in the league.
